| Archive for scabies.myfreeforum.org Southern California Arachnid, Bug, Invertebrate, Entomological Society |
| ftorres |
About US Fish & Wildlife RegulationsAbout US Fish & Wildlife Regulations-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The following applies to traders residing in the United States: To commercially* import or export wildlife specimens across the U.S.A. national border you must get a permit from the US Fish and Wildlife agency. This license will cost you $100.00 annually. To apply for this permit you must obtain the 'Federal Fish and Wildlife License/Permit Application Form' (OMB No. 1018-0022). But that's not all... Once you have the license you must declare the contents of each package that comes in or goes out using the 'Declaration for Importation or Exportation of Fish or Wildlife' form (USFWS Form 3-177). Each package declaration will cost you $55.00 to cover inspection costs. Depending on circumstances, for incoming packages, your local USFWS may want to inspect the package BEFORE you open it. So, don't open it until you check with them. They may want you to bring it unopened into their office for inspection. Ask your supplier to mail you a commercial invoice ahead of the package so that you can complete your declaration form ahead of time and mail it to the USFWS before the package arrives. Leave the 'Date of Import' field blank, since you will not know the exact date the package will arrive. A similar process is required when you are shipping a package out of the United States. But before you place an order with a suppliers outside the USA, contact your local USFWS office (see link at bottom of this page for directory of offices by state) and ask them what paperwork may be required from THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. This is very important because there are some countries that you cannot import from legally, such as India. It depends on the agreements between the two countries. Remember, you have to pay a flat fee of $55.00 per shipment, no matter how large or small your shipment is. Therefore the larger your order the more you will save per specimen on these inspection fees, whether you are importing or exporting. You can download Form 3-177 from the USFWS web site: http://www.fws.gov/ However, the annual Import/Export license is not available to download - you have to get one mailed to you. When you request it, ask for the whole kit. They will send you a large packet of information, including official regulations, lists of protected species in the U.S.A., a C.I.T.E.S. list, and more. While you're at it, ask them for a 'Credit Card Authorization Form' so you can pay your fees more easily. Bottom line: If you are serious about importing or exporting insect specimens commercially and legally you must get in touch with your local USFWS office and get yourself set up with them. If you get set up with the proper protocol you will be ahead of the game, since a lot of traders are ignoring these laws and will eventually get caught. To import/export live insect specimens across the U.S.A. national border, all of the above applies plus you must comply with USDA regulations as well. Contact the USDA for that information. Links to Fish and Wildlife Management Offices State, Territorial, and Tribal: http://offices.fws.gov/statelinks.html Insects Listed on the U.S. Endangered Species Act of 1973: http://iris.biosci.ohio-state.edu/regs/esaspp.html Article: The Lacey Act: America's Premier Weapon in the Fight Against Unlawful Wildlife Trafficking http://www.animallaw.info/articles/arus16publlr27.htm BAlam, I hope this clarifies some questions. francisco |
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| ftorres |
About C.I.T.E.S. PermitsAbout C.I.T.E.S. Permits-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exporting or importing endangered (Appendix I) or protected (Appendix II) wildlife species, dead or alive; across international borders, is regulated by an international body named The Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (C.I.T.E.S.). See the C.I.T.E.S. web page for information on permits: http://www.cites.org For quick reference, click the link below to jump to the current C.I.T.E.S. comprehensive list of protected species, Appendices I, II, and III. C.I.T.E.S. Appendices |
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| balam |
Wow Francisco,
I couldn't have asked for amore complete answer to the question. This is great information, not just for someone that is looking at importing, but for every hobbyist out there. A lot of people think some items may be over priced, but once you see that there has to be a legal process behind every animal that enters US soil, the permits, the denials, the fees and the headaches, well, i guess it makes you appreciate more the people that are busting their butt doing this so that we can continue enjoying this great hobby. EDIT: I thank you for putting this info up 
I have been looking at the CITES site and I've been paying close attention to a couple of species that are on my long list of possible items to (perhaps eventually) import. I'm still a little hung up on certain sp. which are far more protected, then again, these laws and regulations are there for a reason (though some of it, like everything else, may just be bureaucracy). And BTW, to everyone else out there that is thinking of going around all this paperwork, good luck (not really), but you can't say there are no available resources to research how legal or ILLEGAL are your actions. please try to follow ALL the rules and regulations and don't become the bad apple that may taint the hobby that so many of us enjoy. Peace. |
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| sick4x4 |
balam,
most of the rules and regs are tailored to wild collecting and you should be clear in stating this if you plan on importing....your not comparing apples to apples...cites is alittle out dated as well and far from gospel when understanding importable specimens... overpriced specimens have more to deal with popularity than what it takes to get them into the country....its actually kind of sad, when the indigenous people of the region are paid pennies to collect specimens and dealers reap the profits(for filing the right paper work????) but i guess its capitalism at its best.... im not sure of some of your comments or whom you think your speaking for but be careful in including the general consensus in your remarks....when dealing with the understanding of importing, talk to an importer...most of the rules and regs that govern our hobby are by people who have no idea what our hobby in-tales.....so your follow the rules comment  ????
any hoot, maybe i read more into your comments than i should of but it frustrates me when people who dont understand the whole scope of our hobby say some of things you did...and you are again??? is all i can say to myself.... wayne |
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| balam |
I agree that I should make myself clear, however I felt the first sentence on the post (the original post, not my post) made it clear this conversation (post) was about import/export, thus the numerous information listed as to the necessary permits, agencies involved and such, I don't believe there was any mention regarding collecting. Perhaps I can be a tad more clear in the future.
true as it may be, it is also a start, everything requires further research, this is not more than an outline for answering questions pertaining to importing/exporting.
This I learned not too long ago, and once again I do partially agree with your point of view, however I would say that the base price of any given specimen is in fact based on rarity. Popularity is only demand for something that is readily available, a specimen that is a little more rare, let's say an M. balfouri (may not be the best example) will come with a higher price tag because it is rare, not necessarily because there is a demand for it. Dealers understand that if you bring something new into the hobby people are more likely going to pay a higher prize based on the rarity of the animal. However, for the most part, specimens are in fact priced depending on the popularity such specimen has in the hobby (yes, blue tarantulas sell ).
Once again I will agree. I did EDIT my post after reading this becasue of the broad spectrum that I initially encompassed with my comment, nevertheless this information is priceless, put all together in one place and given by somebody in answer to previously asked questions. Perhaps not all SCABIES members should thank the author of the post, I however will remain thankful to the author for posting the information.
Just for the hobbyists that plan on importing (regardless of how large the qty of specimens may be) occasionally. Some people rely on what is available, others look for what they want and try to find out how to get it, and then there are some that want something in particular and may want it cheap, so they resort to smuggling.
I can see my comment rubbed you the wrong way Wayne, wouldn't want to have someone read too much into it, it wasn't meant to be that way, and perhaps my screen name is not known, nor do I share the wealth of knowledge that perhaps you posses, but when you ask the question who am I? well just another hobbyist interested in learning, I myself asked the same question of you after reading your response. Regardless, I thank you for your input, it has been taken into account. Oscar R. |
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| Steven |
Shoot ...I shoulda/coulda had the big manila envelope out for u guys to check out ...all the paper work they sent me when I was pondering just getting my import/export license.
One thing though... importing CAN be done as a hobbyist. This gets fuzzy and the agents i talked too admit that. The import would have to be legal with all other international and US laws THUS that means shipping via an agent into an official port and inspected. At the time I was told the fee for the inspection was $50. (but possibly more depending on other fuzzys) The number of animals and the number of species that a person can import per shipment and per year also gets fuzzy. One of the old timers kinda gave me examples ...like 15 animals ...usually talkin herps and/or large inverts. He also said a person/hobbyist can probably get away with 2 or 3 shipments a year. The WARNING I got when discussing the hobbyist route was ...if caught selling even the offspring w/out a import/export license, one could get burned as a smuggler ...which could snowball into not only a hefty fine and inconvenience, but also reach out and touch those that you are connected to within the hobby. One thing the old man told me that sparked my interest (and this was a couple years before scabies formed) ...he was pushing for organized groups to go the import/export (licensed) route. I could tell the reason for this was because he seemed to have a great time dealing with some invert group that does regular shipments. (maybe ATS? ..honestly cant remember who he was talking about) BTW... even IF lets say some main stream bigtime shipping company such as DHL dumbed down their own live animal/venomous animal/scary spiders policies and allowed such shipments, there would be no way to have it inspected UNLESS one could have DHL ship directly to the LongBeach inspection facility. You couldnt get away with lying to DHL,FedX..etc and still have it properly inspected BECAUSE, #1 you broke a contract with an international shipping company which is breaking the law. #2..#1 plus the fact that it involves live animals which brings CITES and another international agency (brain fart) into the mix. #3. In order to sneak a live animal import under the shipping companies nose, there would be a bunch of paperwork unfinished ...the shipping company is involved in the paperwork needed for any inspected import ...your precious inverts would never see your bug room and most likely would be destroyed. SCABIES could organize for importing. |
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| balam |
Is this the full kit Francisco mentioned? id it contain CITES info on protected species?
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| Steven |
Is this the full kit Francisco mentioned? id it contain CITES info on protected species?
Maybe... seriously been a while since I looked at it ...and at the time I was a little overwhelmed by it anyway. |
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| sick4x4 |
i think we talked about this when scabies 1st started, along with the scabies breeder group(which i dont know if that forum is still up and running?)...i think warren or frisco was heading it up and then i left and im not sure what became of it after that????
oscar like i said when dealing in regs especially CITES related, i belive its a touch and go type of dilemma... like many of the brachys species and pampho's that were put on the list due to the big pet crazes of the past..when everyone and there mother was going to mexico and the americas and bringing everything they could get their hands on back... but this was in regards to the wild collected species...now that many of the cites species are captive breed, i really think an amendment should be added taking that into consideration.... rarity is a market scheme IMO, as GBB are a rare species(found only on a single locale)but fetch nowhere near the prices as some pokies and the famous M.balfouri...also many north american species fall into the rarity application but again price is governed by market demand not necessarily by true rarity....P.metallicas are 100 a sling, M.balfouri 100-150 a sling though many a hobbyist pay in the 2-300 price range???? market demand again..subfuscas used to be 300 but now 50-60 bucks, mirandas were 150 at one time but now they are under 50...so again market value is a supply and demand kind of thing many hobbyist get caught into by the rarity comment... i do get what you are saying and like i said i think i read into it to much...i just hate how some hobbyist try to wear a badge of honor making comments of do the right thing or else, when in all reality they haven't taken the whole situation into consideration before standing on a shoe box....not saying that was your intent but thats how i took it...sorry wayne |
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| WBurke17 |
It never happened. but the forum is still there, but now I mostly use it to try new or experimental thigs for the site.. |
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| balam |
Thank you for your understanding Wayne. I can't say much of what I don't know, but I speak a lot based on what I believe. You have strong points, and I like the fact that you are able to back them up as well. I think this is what forums should be about. At first I felt as if you were just bashing what I said, but I soon realized how you could have felt while reading what I posted. I also respect when a person is able to take a step back and try to see the other's side. Once again thank you for doing that. forums can be great learning places so long as the members are able to push and pull.
I think SCABIES is starting to roll back to how it used to be when it started (only guessing since I didn't even experienced it, but this is mostly based on what I hear and what I see the forum doing lately). It would be fun to get the Breeders Group back up (well... started). There are lots of members who can bring something good to the table, I'm glad to be part of tis forum
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| Steven |
i planted a virus it was risky i had hope of a cure |
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| sick4x4 |
awww the days of old....those were great times, zankou chicken and islands... trading bugs and talking shop | ||||||||||||
| ftorres |
Hello All,
Oscar thanks for the comments. Wayne is a person with a bast knowledge and great contacts. We are a lucky group, because we have all sorts of knowledgeable people, whose contributions, have in one way or the other help to form and give this group a path. thank you all. This group will really get far. francisco |
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| WBurke17 |
And watching David perform sideshow acts (removing his eye) 
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| cacoseraph |
here is the only thing that makes me wonder...
CA fish and game (or whatever they are called) specifically do NOT define bugs as animals that their rules and regs apply to. they have the legal document definition section as an appendix or something and animal is defined as mammals, reptiles, amphibs, and *MARINE* inverts... which definitely legally excludes our terrestrial inverts from falling under their legally defined bailiwick i suspect that the federal statutes might be defined differently... but then again, i wouldn't be surprised that they are just taking money for bugs when they don't actually have the legal ability to |
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