(and i'm going to quote so the AB nazis don't take away another post telling ppl about a scammer)
[QUOTE=clearlysaid;1046972]I hope this is the correct place to post this. Nate is a seller on the boards but this warning isn't pertaining to something he sold me, rather it's something he owes me money for. Mods, please move this if need be, thanks!
[CENTER]Simply put my warning is that Nate Williams is not a man of his word. If he is trying to buy inverts from you I would suggest you get 100% of the funds prior to sending any animals.
The following is a detailed account as to why I would suggest this. It's prolly more information than needs to be included but I want to try to be as detailed as possible:[/CENTER]
I met Nate through the [URL="http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=81533"]Arachnoboards[/URL]. In August 2007 we co-founded the [URL="http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=104033"]Rocky Mountain Exotic Pets Society (RMEPS)[/URL]. At the time he seemed like a real stand up guy. He was easy to get in contact with. I enjoyed hanging out with him and his wife. He was trying to help my boyfriend get a job at where he works.
There were some red flags along the way that I unfortunately chose to ignore. I thought the society had such great potential and I wanted to be part of it.
During my time in the society I also befriended another member on this board named Kevin. Nate, Kevin and I were the ones buying stock for RMEPS' store. We also helped each other in procuring animals we wanted for our private collections.
On Sept 16th I talked Nate into signing up for our local [URL="http://www.arachnoboards.com/ab/showthread.php?t=105263"]reptile (invert-friendly) expo[/URL]. On Sept 30th I sent payment for the booth at the show per Nate’s request.
Around 10/2 I contacted Jason at the Arachnoporium to order 3 Singapore Blues, one for Nate to use at the show as a show tarantula and two for myself. Nate said he didn’t want to deal with Jason because he says Jason burned him in the past. I had no problems w/ Jason so I didn’t mind ordering an extra spider on Nate’s behalf. On 10/5 Nate contacted me stating Kevin wants me to add a Singapore Blue to my order for him so I did.
Also on 10/3 I initiated an order for 12 RCF rose hairs I was planning on selling at the show.
In the meantime the three of us put in a group order for inverts that we were going to sell at the show and split the profit three ways. We received those and re-housed them all on 10/12.
I received all the inverts I personally ordered by the 18th. On 10/19 we made a special trip to Nate’s work 45 minutes away to bring him both his and Kevin’s Singapore Blue. Nate was going to drop Kevin’s off at his house in Littleton on his way back to Greeley. I also brought him two of my RCFs as he said he had a schoolteacher wanting one and his co-worker Jennifer wanted one. I told him I was selling them for $40 as they included an enclosure.
By 10/25 I hadn’t rec’d any reimbursement for any of the animals. I emailed Nate and Kevin asking if they could also cover their portion of the shipping on the Singapores, so a total of $88.75 would be due for each. On 10/27 Nate emailed me saying he has someone who wants to buy the Singapore for $190 and if he does he’ll send me $80 for it. I guess that didn’t happen.
On 11/2 everything fell apart. Due to unacceptable demands and not-so-subtle threats Nate’s wife was making towards me I realized that I needed to withdraw from the society to cut the drama. It’s now I’m reminded of George Carlin’s quote, “Just because you got the monkey off your back doesn’t mean the circus has left the town.”
I didn’t have a problem w/ Nate and was trying to work things out amicably with him. I said that although I’m taking the RMEPS sites down that I had worked on I’d sell him the domains but I’d donate the expo booth to the society instead of making him pay me for it. I had ordered a banner and said if that came in before the show I’d donate that to the society, also. I also said we needed to work out how I can get paid for the inverts I put in his possession. About the Singapore I told him, “If you really want the Singapore we can work out something for that. I know you had mentioned to me a couple of times how you were looking for one.”
His response on 11/4 was:
“I will just give you back the singapore, as I didnt have the funds to cover it like I thought I did on Payday this time around...
As much as I dont want to see this society go down the tubes, it seems like it already has....
I still have both of the RCF's....So I'll bring them down to you as well here sometime in this next couple days that I'm working...”
I didn’t receive either RCF or the Singapore from him.
On 11/7 I emailed him saying we needed to tie up some loose ends:
“We still need to work out:
1) How I will be reimbursed for my portion of our order. As you'll remember we agreed to splitting the profit three ways (from you in a Sept 18th email, "The Profit would be split 3 ways"). I did not agree to simply getting back my $141.
2) I need the Singapore back or we need to establish how you could possibly pay me for it in the future.
3) I need my two RCF rosies back or I need the $80 ($40 each was what I was selling them for).”
To which he replied:
“Kevin has one of the RCF rosies, so you can get that from him. I will give you $40 for mine IF it sells at the show, otherwise I'll give it to Kevin & you can get it from him. Same goes for the singapore ($80). SINCE you are NO longer a member of this society, you have no right to any of it's profits. You spent $140, therefore you will get that $140 returned to you once I have seen that you have returned ALL of the spiders to Kevin & they are still healthy.”
This is when I realized this wasn’t going to work out as smoothly as it should. Kevin was forced to become the middleman in the situation and Nate up and changed the agreements we had established almost two months ago.
I responded:
“That's not what we agreed to, Nate. It's not right nor fair for you to profit off of your wife's mistake. We all agreed to splitting the profit three ways and there were NO conditions placed on that split. If that is magically no longer the deal I'll just have to keep my portion of the spiders so I CAN sell them for profit.”
To which he responded:
“When we made that deal, it was understood that you would still be an active member, which you are no longer. Making the previous agreement null & void. The right & fair thing is, since you withdrew, you will not be making a profit off of the society. We will not sell your spiders for you. You either give them back to the society & we give you $140 OR keep them & you'll have $140 worth of spiders, I could care less. I'd like to remind you that You were the one to withdraw, even after an appology from myself & my Wife. That your problem. I still want my Hmac back, as I'm sure you want yours, you can give it to Kevin & I'll do the same.”
And that was it. I assume the “want yours back” comment was in regards to the Singapore, but he never gave Kevin his Singapore to give back to me.
The show was 11/10. I talked to Kevin afterwards and he said Nate did indeed sell the RCF at the show. I didn’t receive my money from him, though. He did not sell the Singapore, I didn’t receive the money or the spider from him, though. That’s when Kevin says, “Oh, by the way, did Nate pay you for my Singapore?” “No, why would he do that?” “When he brought it to me he said not to worry about paying you because he’d cover it for me.”
So on 11/29 I emailed Nate at his work address:
“Where's my money, Nate?
I have given you plenty of time to get it together. Kevin told me you sold the rosie at the show and I KNOW you've gotten paid at least once between now and this email chain. Kevin also advised me you told him you'd "cover" his singapore so I guess you owe me another $80 for that. So $80 for your singapore, $80 for his singapore and $40 for the rosie. You owe me $200 ASAP. You have my PayPal address as I've PayPal'd money to you before. You don't even have to respond to this email... you can just send the money.”
As of today I have yet to receive money or any sort of response from Nate. I think it’s really unfortunate that this is the image he’s projecting of not only himself but the RMEPS society as he is the “president” of the society. The lack of follow through and lack of communication is just unacceptable.
[CENTER]Nate, if you want to make this right you have ALL of my contact information… email, phone… you can even just PM on AB. Or, like I said previously you can just send me my money and never have to talk to me again. I have discussed the situation with Kevin and since you apparently don’t remember saying you’d cover his Singapore he’s going to pay me for it. So you owe me $40 as the agreed price for the RCF and $80 as the agreed price for the Singapore. $120 total.[/CENTER]
I'm a trusting person. I will go out of my way for my friends. Friends don't cheat friends, right? Well, Nate and I are no longer friends, that's blatantly obvious, now. I would like to tie up these loose ends but mainly I hope to prevent someone else from making the same mistake I did.
[CENTER]
$$ first... THEN spider.[/CENTER]
It's my first time being burned during this hobby and I have officially learned my lesson.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Nivek;1057886]Unfortunately, as much as I hate to, I am obligated to honestly account for my dealings with Nate, so here it is.
In my time dealing with, and working with Nate in his endeavors, I have traded him, purchased from him and sold with him at a Reptile show. In the time I have done so, I have noticed several displays of bad business with other people and with myself. I will describe them to the best of my abilities.
Nate has lied to customers about the conditions of his animals on more than one occasion. His claim that every animal that passes through goes through a long quarantine period is false. He has labeled Wild caught G. roseas as "5 years of hard work" and sold them to people as such.
Nate, myself, and Bell all went in equally on an order for a reptile show approximately 3 months ago. Shortly afterwards, there was a dispute between Nate and Bell it was very difficult to get that taken care of with Bell's 33% investment.
Nate owes me approximately 60$ and is still in posession of a Trapdoor Spider of mine he refuses to return, as well as Bell's Singapore blue.
I have enclosed a copy of the only E-mail I have received from him pertaining to the issue:
"So, I thought I would take a second and add a couple things to that last email I sent you since you've yet to respond to me about it....I seriously dont want to sound like a prick here, But For you to take sides with Bell Has severely agravated myself and my wife....ESPECIALLY since We Did a lot more for you than most people would have (IE The Digital Camera, Payin' for you to be at the show, even picking you up FOR the Show) And If that's how you show gratitude by stepping across a line that didnt need to be crossed, Then you're Eggs are definatly not all in one basket...The LAST thing I'm going to say Is I'll end up bringing you your spider and Bell's Singapore When it's convienent for me...I'm not going to go out of my way just to drop them off, especially since I really and RARELY even bring the bugs with me down here anylonger....
One of those GREAT phrases, Ya definatly dont want to screw over a cop...but it's worse when you choose to burn a bridge with one
NRW"
Also, the part of his email pertaining to convenience to him. The route from his home and from work passes very, very close to both me AND Bell, so it's not a matter of convenience, but rather Spite.
In short, if you do any dealings with Nate make sure you receive any money before hand, and if you are buying things, make SURE you know exactly what it is, and it's condition.[/QUOTE] _________________
Quote:
There may be people who like centipedes. I have seen people handling tarantulas and scorpions, but never a centipede handler. I would regard such a person with deep suspicion...Now what sort of man or woman or monster would stroke a centipede on its underbelly "And here is my big good centipede." If such a man exists, I say kill him without more ado. He is a traitor to the human race.
and the whole "my wife" this and that annoys the hell out of me
_________________
Quote:
There may be people who like centipedes. I have seen people handling tarantulas and scorpions, but never a centipede handler. I would regard such a person with deep suspicion...Now what sort of man or woman or monster would stroke a centipede on its underbelly "And here is my big good centipede." If such a man exists, I say kill him without more ado. He is a traitor to the human race.
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